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All TRADERS are fools .... |
opportunist
White Belt
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356
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Post: #76  Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| misscrore wrote: | "So you see skill and strategy are both sides of the same coin if one wants to win this game. You cannot have one without not having the other. What the proponent of this thread pointed out was that we harp too much on strategy when basic skills are missing in traders. That is a sad situation."
Dear Oppo ...
Liked the way you detailed ... but didnt understand where are you leading your views too ...
Are you in support of the thread's view or not ...
Basically taking the same point of skills and strategy ... you need to know to walk before you can run .... so get your discipline and money mgmt in place ... any strategy then basis your skillset will work ...
Hope I am making my point clear here  |
I am not really bothered about anyone liking my views or not. Also I am not here to support or denigrate anybody...I just give my sincere views and arguments on the topic as a part of input to understand better the core issue at hand. If you like it ..fine..if you don't ...so be it.
Since you were not sure where I am leading to ..... I would rephrase my views. I would say that I am trying to underscore the need to gain basic skills before going for complex strategies. In other professions this is done in a training school. Unfortunately stock/commodity /currency traders don't have that privilege.
I am taking this point further to say that in order to streamline this learning process perhaps a school for traders may be a good proposition both from business point of view and for the traders community as a whole. Richard Dennis had proved that it is possible with his Turtle traders in the 80s. Some universities in USA offer courses on trading. However, it is another question that too many good traders will make the markets tough. And that is what may stop the experts to take up such a project.
Or will it?
Many good traders like Wilder and Bollinger had informal system of mentoring (and they charged handsomely too). Most great traders had laid bare their secrets in books trying to pass on their knowledge to the future generation.
We need some such practice in our country too. Hope I made myself clear. |
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freedom
White Belt
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
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| Post: #77 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Two pence |
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| misscrore wrote: | | sandew wrote: | All traders who follow others are fools.
A joke I read long time back goes something like this:
A man while walking along the New York harbor was told by another
'This yacht is owned by the Banker'
'This ship is owned by the Broker'
'This penthouse across the road is owned by the NYSE President'
Man turns around and asks, "Excuse me, is there any yacht of any Trader here'. "No, none", came the reply. |
Good One Sandew  |
Yes, its indeed a good one, do u know why sandew, the man walking along the new york was sandew himself so at last sandew has understand"All traders who follow others are fools" but no one told sandew there is a difference between PIG Race & Human Race. |
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freedom
White Belt
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
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| Post: #78 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| veerappan wrote: | | innappa nadakudu inga ... sandai potukinu keereengo... freedom saradhan vuduppa ... avaru jaichitadha irukkattum .... |
Anna, please English. |
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svkum
White Belt
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 321
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| Post: #79 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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you can learn cycling by actually cycling , felling many times.
you can learn driving a car , by actually driving a car till you get confidence.
both skills cant be learned just by reading books.
likewise discipline tdg and money management will be imbibed in the blood by practicing and improvising.
just telling 1000 time one shd be disciplined and have money managemet , no one will get anything .
if at all you want to gauide others by examples , describe each trade point by point how itwas executed managed , pitfalls experienced, and how that were overcome.
simply telling again again same thing traders will not get anything , but would reamin fools , if you wish that way. |
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t.chatterjee
White Belt
Joined: 07 May 2010
Posts: 66
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| Post: #80 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| svkum wrote: | you can learn cycling by actually cycling , felling many times.
you can learn driving a car , by actually driving a car till you get confidence.
both skills cant be learned just by reading books.
likewise discipline tdg and money management will be imbibed in the blood by practicing and improvising.
just telling 1000 time one shd be disciplined and have money managemet , no one will get anything .
if at all you want to gauide others by examples , describe each trade point by point how itwas executed managed , pitfalls experienced, and how that were overcome.
simply telling again again same thing traders will not get anything , but would reamin fools , if you wish that way. |
absolutely ryt
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chrome
Yellow Belt
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 645
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| Post: #81 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Strategy vs System.....hmmmm..
What differentiate each other (as far as I think) is "quantifying"..
If i would say my strategy/ system, say EMA crossover can provide 500 NF points per month, then it's unjustified....it can't in consolidating market scenario...
If i would say my strategy/ system is to enter at that particular EMA crossover with sl of X points with reversal of the crossover, then it may sound actually tradable...
This is my view to differentiate any strategy or a system.....nothing is quantifiable in market....otherwise why would anyone need to work anything other than trading the 'so simple' stock market 
(all remarks above mentioned are on a healthy discussion mode)
rgds |
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rk_a2003
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2734
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| Post: #82 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| misscrore wrote: | Dear RK ...
Never have I said strategy aint required .... you can go through all my post ...
I still say the same thing ... it is important ... but least important ...
And the issue that I was saying is people concentrate the most on it ...
If you think I am wrong ...so be it brother ... doesnt matter to me ...
If you still feel you can be a good trader only with strategy in hand ...ALL THE BEST |
misscrore
I never said that you are wrong. I only considered it as a mistake from your part. If you don't want to accept it... That's up to you.
I only can say one thing....It is always better to correct ourselves the moment we recognized that we committed a mistake. It equally applies to our Ideas/Understandings not only for trading.
My intention is not to corner you .In fact in my first post I said most of your points are valid.
And also I never thought that one can be a good trader only with strategy in hand.
Also I take pride in progressing in to better understandings. A flowing stream never gets contaminated. A stand still water dump always gets contaminated......In fact... It stinks. |
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misscrore
White Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 40
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| Post: #83 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| t.chatterjee wrote: | | svkum wrote: | you can learn cycling by actually cycling , felling many times.
you can learn driving a car , by actually driving a car till you get confidence.
both skills cant be learned just by reading books.
likewise discipline tdg and money management will be imbibed in the blood by practicing and improvising.
just telling 1000 time one shd be disciplined and have money managemet , no one will get anything .
if at all you want to gauide others by examples , describe each trade point by point how itwas executed managed , pitfalls experienced, and how that were overcome.
simply telling again again same thing traders will not get anything , but would reamin fools , if you wish that way. |
Svkum sir
I dint say it 1000 times .... I don't know y u get that feeling ... I said only once and to ppl who put their views forward I told them why discipline and money mgmt are important
I am not here to tech a step by step process ... I can't as rightly said by u ... It has to be practiced...
So in short this thread is not an instruction manual on how not to be a foolish guy running behind just strategies ...
Its about giving importance (or practicing) other 2 important parts of trading
absolutely ryt
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freedom
White Belt
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
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| Post: #84 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I am here to corner none nor even interested in being flowing stream[Even Gutter Flows], any thing & everything in the form of liquid flows and many people have never heard of Gurudongmar Lake, its a stand still water Lake & it has never ever in its entirety stinked , i can bet that u can't even found a leaf on its water & the water is such clean that u can drink straight away, THE POINT BEHIND THIS WRITE - UP, A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS SUCH DANGEROUS THAT FOOLS ALWAYS TRIES TO PACIFY THEMSELVES USING THE WORD "ALL". |
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ProTrader
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 433
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| Post: #85 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think there has been enough discussion and excitement on "Fools". Being the biggest Fool of all I am recommending a closure to this topic.
Regards,
--PT |
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freedom
White Belt
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
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| Post: #86 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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At last i have made follower , one is PT & second is Anna.
The always follow me
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freedom
White Belt
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
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| Post: #87 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ProTrader wrote: | I think there has been enough discussion and excitement on "Fools". Being the biggest Fool of all I am recommending a closure to this topic.
Regards,
--PT |
Every one wants "ALL".
God save this Earth. |
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opportunist
White Belt
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356
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| Post: #88 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I believe the discussion has veered towards learning vs teaching . Well as svkum sir rightly put it trading like cycling and horse riding can only be learnt by doing and not by reading. One can guide but the practise of it can never be taught...never. (In fact I suspect the same for any skill in life from cooking to painting can be learnt only by doing but lets get back to the point)
Trading can be classified as what Knowledge Management professionals say- "tacit" knowledge....you know it but cannot pass it onto others. Like balancing a bike...you just cannot write it down for the next guy to pick up. This is different from "codified" knowledge. Something like the pilot's manual. Here each move can be written down for another guy to follow.
But still a plane needs a pilot...it has wonderful computers which can take off or land but still human intervention is needed ...at least as on date. That's because in any successful execution of strategy a lot of TACIT knowledge is used. The guy who uses it does so unknowingly.
It is like Tendulkar may want it badly but cannot teach his son play like him unless Arjun tendulkar himself picks it up.
So what is STRATEGY ? Is it tacit or codified knowledge? Strategy of course is codified knowledge and that is why we find so much of it floating around. But implementation needs tacit knowledge which is basically playing skill and hence most of the time these strategy gyans fail. |
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freedom
White Belt
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
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| Post: #89 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ProTrader wrote: | Are we in Fool`s Paradise  |
PT rightly said This is really a Fool's Paradise  |
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t.chatterjee
White Belt
Joined: 07 May 2010
Posts: 66
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| Post: #90 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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why dont u lock it pt sir?
why dont u stop ppls posting such baseless things like " i will alert every one by saying all is fool but cant post any example coz i am not for that"
some day some guys will come and post about their gyan about gann or "god knows what" and will claim all r loosing only they are gaining, another day some one will come and say all r fool,bcoz he want to "alert" others
is it a forum related to stock/comm market or merely a place for indulging hypocrisy?
u always maintained that forum and sb, both r meant for educations,specially for newbies so that they can communicate with seniors and sharpen their skills, now is it an example of that?
nowadays, apparently fresher ppls are coming and giving gyan to a senior and professional trader like svkum....... do u think they are learning from seniors this way??
nowadays it seems that, those who have heard the name "stock market" for first time come here and start lecturing about various aspect of stock trading, and i am sure things will not change unless some meaningful step is taken from ur part
i would like to request u to take some steps in this regard or otherwise at least deny me the forum access ( i got two ids. t.chatterjee/casper) so that everyday i dont need to see this kinds of posts every time i try to open the chart
thank u very much |
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