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Evaluate Your Trading Loss! Loss Is The Mother Of Profit. |
rk_a2003
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2734
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Post: #1  Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: Evaluate Your Trading Loss! Loss Is The Mother Of Profit. |
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Hi All!
Nothing wrong in making losses. It was said that more than 70% of Day traders perish. Here the problem is.
They perish even before knowing that whether they have the ability to be a day trader or not? The Reason - Mainly Poor Money Management.
Usually we talk about our successful trades. Nothing wrong in it. Someone can learn from it and benefit from it.
I feel even submitting and dissecting about losing trades is far more useful.
There is no use in analyzing the success or failures of Impulsive trades.
Let us discuss about trades done with a plan/method and went wrong,
This may not be meant for protraders, meant for ordinary traders. The role of pro's are helping ordinary ones in evaluating whenever they find some time and if they are kind enough to do it.
There is a secret -- To become a master in any discipline start teaching it. The teaching cannot afford any short comings, Individual efforts can comfortably accommodate short comings.
I invite everyone to participate in this thread and take advantage of this opportunity. By doing so we have nothing to lose but failures.
Let us start discussing our losing trades |
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amitkbaid1008
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 540
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| Post: #2 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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rk
I think I should also organize Technical Analysis course like Srikant Sir.
That way I can learn more and earn more
 |
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maneesh007
White Belt
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 119
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| Post: #3 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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 ...well said |
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pushkarmore
White Belt
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 49
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| Post: #4 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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this is a wonderful idea.. there cant b a better example than me.. lol
since feb this yr till now, i hav paid 14+ lacs as training fees in trading; well i call it a high premium fee (my losses) lol..
well most of it was my own wrong doing.
i learnt, in order to make money u shud be able to control your emotions and not to get carried away.
now i make descent returns each day.once my target money total is reached for the day, i turn off the terminal cause its very diff to keep away frm trading, its addictive |
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pkholla
Black Belt
Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 2890
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| Post: #5 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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I started making losses in options becos I didnt keep SL
I started keeping SL and pros started taking price down to trigger my SL so I again made loss
Now I wait for price to go up then I put SL at purchase+brokerage and then sell at target price
Now making decent profit but still not recovered 100% earlier losses!
Still good beginning to turn around phase
Good to have systematic plan and for that need to get slapped 1 or 2 times or more by market |
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pushkarmore
White Belt
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 49
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| Post: #6 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
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it happens to all of us..
losses come in a big way and profits are tiny bits and pieces.. hehe..
| pkholla wrote: | I started making losses in options becos I didnt keep SL
I started keeping SL and pros started taking price down to trigger my SL so I again made loss
Now I wait for price to go up then I put SL at purchase+brokerage and then sell at target price
Now making decent profit but still not recovered 100% earlier losses!
Still good beginning to turn around phase
Good to have systematic plan and for that need to get slapped 1 or 2 times or more by market |
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sandamar
White Belt
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 5
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| Post: #7 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: SIZE up |
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| I Have understood that money management and Position size are two different things in fact.My losses stoped mounting when i started to size my position as a percentage of my equity. |
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ravionlinek
White Belt
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 97
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| Post: #8 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: SIZE up |
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| sandamar wrote: | | I Have understood that money management and Position size are two different things in fact.My losses stoped mounting when i started to size my position as a percentage of my equity. |
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same hear
Now whatever trade i do have certain amt limit
After 2 years In Stock Market
My Green Days R More than Red days
but still goes in minus.....problem is Stop loss what i have follow cleverly but not tgt(hear comes d Money management)
So Trying To be more consistent.......& discipline(Following Rules). |
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ravionlinek
White Belt
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 97
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| Post: #9 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: SIZE up |
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| sandamar wrote: | | I Have understood that money management and Position size are two different things in fact.My losses stoped mounting when i started to size my position as a percentage of my equity. |
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same hear
Now whatever trade i do have certain amt limit
After 2 years In Stock Market
My Green Days R More than Red days
but still goes in minus.....problem is Stop loss what i have follow cleverly but not tgt(hear comes d Money management)
So Trying To be more consistent.......& discipline(Following Rules). |
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rk_a2003
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2734
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| Post: #10 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: SIZE up |
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Hi !
It appears to me that position sizing comes under money management.Under money managemet if you decided not to take more than 2 % loss for a trade you have to take a position size accordingly.
However, It should not be an issue of debate .We can say both are Important.
| ravionlinek wrote: | | sandamar wrote: | | I Have understood that money management and Position size are two different things in fact.My losses stoped mounting when i started to size my position as a percentage of my equity. |
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....................................................................................................
same hear
Now whatever trade i do have certain amt limit
After 2 years In Stock Market
My Green Days R More than Red days
but still goes in minus.....problem is Stop loss what i have follow cleverly but not tgt(hear comes d Money management)
So Trying To be more consistent.......& discipline(Following Rules). |
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opportunist
White Belt
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356
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| Post: #11 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| pkholla wrote: | I started making losses in options becos I didnt keep SL
I started keeping SL and pros started taking price down to trigger my SL so I again made loss
Now I wait for price to go up then I put SL at purchase+brokerage and then sell at target price
Now making decent profit but still not recovered 100% earlier losses!
Still good beginning to turn around phase
Good to have systematic plan and for that need to get slapped 1 or 2 times or more by market |
Boss didnt get the logic: "I wait for price to go up then I put SL at purchase+brokerage and then sell at target price" . If you 'wait' for the price to go up and it may NEVER go up ...then what do you do? Then where is your SL? I think your idea of SL is incorrect. SL is STOP LOSS. That is first you need to be in a loss which you stop. If you are waiting to be in profit how can call it 'stop loss'?
Setting a SL is a science and a little art too. Learn the science (using volatility indicators like ATR) and practise the art (like setting the level at a tick or two lower or higher depending on the strength of the trend)
But before all that you first need to understand why SL at all. SL is used to contain decimation of your trading capital while not allowing volatility to cause early exit from potential profit position. Not more than 2-3% of your trading cap should be your SL per trade.
Second problem I find in your approach is thinking pros control your trade (pros started taking price down to trigger my SL so I again made loss).
Three reasons it doesn't happen that way: a) How will anybody know what you as an individual is trading on your screen unless you tell them or broadcast to them? b) Even if you tell them they are busy with their own strategies and trading to take any note. c) Even if they take note, you being a retail trader, your size cannot be significant enough to attract attention from the whole market that they conspire to "bring the prices down to SL".
Three very rational arguments against thinking that other traders forms a cartel to bring your positions down. This kind of stuff are filled into our minds by failed traders: "Market aaj mujhe profit karne nahin diya". NO! I didn't have a good strategy, so I failed - should be one's attitude. Otherwise one cannot progress.
Regards,
Oppo
Last edited by opportunist on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ravionlinek
White Belt
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 97
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| Post: #12 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: SIZE up |
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| yes both r important........ |
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ravionlinek
White Belt
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 97
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| Post: #13 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| opportunist wrote: | | pkholla wrote: | I started making losses in options becos I didnt keep SL
I started keeping SL and pros started taking price down to trigger my SL so I again made loss
Now I wait for price to go up then I put SL at purchase+brokerage and then sell at target price
Now making decent profit but still not recovered 100% earlier losses!
Still good beginning to turn around phase
Good to have systematic plan and for that need to get slapped 1 or 2 times or more by market |
Boss didnt get the logic: "I wait for price to go up then I put SL at purchase+brokerage and then sell at target price" . If you 'wait' for the price to go up and it may NEVER go up ...then what do you do? Then where is your SL? I think your idea of SL is incorrect. SL is STOP LOSS. That is first you need to be in a loss which you stop. If you are waiting to be in profit how can call it 'stop loss'?
Setting a SL is a science and a little art too. Learn the science (using volatility indicators like ATR) and practise the art (like setting the level at a tick or two lower or higher depending on the strength of the trend)
Second problem I find in your approach is thinking pros control your trade (pros started taking price down to trigger my SL so I again made loss).
Three reasons it doesn't happen that way: a) How will anybody know what you as an individual is trading on your screen unless you tell them or broadcast to them? b) Even if you tell them they are busy with their own strategies and trading to take any note. c) Even if they take note you being a retail trader, your size cannot be significant enough to attract attention. Three very rational arguments against thinking that other traders conspired to bring your positions down. This kind of stuff are filled into our minds by failed traders: "Market aaj mujhe profit karne nahin diya". NO! I didn't have a good strategy, so I failed - should be one's attitude. Otherwise one cannot progress.
Regards,
Oppo |
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"Market aaj mujhe profit karne nahin diya". NO! I didn't have a good strategy, so I failed - should be one's attitude. Otherwise one cannot progress......
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yes.
I wright down tread in my excel file? keep asking q Why I tread and ans should b in technical and that giving me better result.... |
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opportunist
White Belt
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 356
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| Post: #14 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pushkarmore wrote: | this is a wonderful idea.. there cant b a better example than me.. lol
since feb this yr till now, i hav paid 14+ lacs as training fees in trading; well i call it a high premium fee (my losses) lol..
well most of it was my own wrong doing.
i learnt, in order to make money u shud be able to control your emotions and not to get carried away.
now i make descent returns each day.once my target money total is reached for the day, i turn off the terminal cause its very diff to keep away frm trading, its addictive |
Man 14+lacs !!!! Wish I had that kind of money to spare seriously. I guess Pushkar buying systems may not help because ultimately the trader IS the system. Seminars and classes that way may be of some help but ultimately it is a self learning process. People with a research bent of mind I think usually would succeed. But focus should be on money making rather than learning.
Best of luck
Oppo |
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ravionlinek
White Belt
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 97
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| Post: #15 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Want to ask some q
1) After Hitting 1st tgt what could be stoploss
some time stock after riching 1st tgt its come to our buying/selling price
level...that time i m happy because i exit around 1st tgt.....
but just 4m our buying/selling price its goes again to R1/S1 to R2/S2
What could be Ans for This scenario is booking 50-70% around 1st tgt is good or 100% @ 1st tgt..... |
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