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How to create/develop/improve/perfect a trading strategy? |
as4manju
White Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 390
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Post: #16  Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I m just elobrating what verru sir has said(taking his permission)...
"when u enter into your trading room remove the chappal and mind"
Well the million $ question how does one leave the mind out its actually very very simple this are few things through which u can litteraly keep ur minds out..
1.Keep ur TV in mute while ur in trading room use it only to see the ticker of price movements
2. Stop taking too many opinions Trading is not going with consesues
3. Do ur home work before u enter the trading room.
4.Keeping the order's in the system (especially the SL order) and not in mind.
5. Have a life... mkts are not everything in life so take breaks,vaccations.. dont be addicted to trading.
6. Know what works for u and wat doesnt...
The more dumb ur the money u make and more smart ur the chances of making money is that much less..
Thus to conclude "money making is directly proportional to degree of dumbness"... so keep ur minds out if u want to make more money..
Regards
Manju
| veerappan wrote: | | when u enter into your trading room remove the chappal and mind....its enough for trading.... |
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nareshusv
White Belt
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
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| Post: #17 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: happy trading |
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hai frns,
As always veeruji mentions its only emotions that always play imp. role.
most of the times we want to book profit early in the fear of loosing profits and we hold the position even Sl triggers in the hope that we get our price.
Be normal, donot think extra ordinary. follow KISS strategy that is keep it simple and stupid.
even you are succesful in 60% of the trades you are making money.
happy trading..............
regards,
naresh  |
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casper
Green Belt
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 1315
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| Post: #18 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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HELP REQUIRED
hii
a great discussion is going on, and i think as vishy said in his starting post of the thread, me too believe that this thread is going to be a treasure for peoples who are trying to develop their own strategy for trading
in this regard, VERU sir told us about his parts, he wrote in details about his love and interest in simple trading with less indicator and more of a number game, while Ravee frankly posted what kinds of mistakes he faced and still facing, its takes lot of courage to call spade a spade and admitting own mistake in an open forum is not a joke, we must salute him that he showed great temperament, his posts in other threads are also not an exception
but with due respect to all of my friend, a few questions, as and when i go through this forum, is coming into my mind, so whereas peoples are here to answer vishy mostly, i want to ask all of my friends a few questions from my part also (i hope vishy wont mind my intervention)
all of my friends are talking about "mind" mostly they are elaborating veru sir's version, veru sir is a very successful person in market beyond doubt, his
more than 20 years exp (as per another website) is the greatest certificate of his success
but how about all of us?
how we will choice our stocks to trade?
what signal we use (as of now) to buy or sell??
what is my stop loss?
which market do we trade? fut/opt/stock?
how much we are satisfied with the results, what is the success rates??
these are the foolish questions which are hunting me while reading the forum
will all my brothers and sisters come forward and elaborate their versions?
i know my id is casper, the owner of the id is more or less successful too, he has got his method to trade and he is followed by a few good and kind peoples too
but that does not means casper "knows all"
i am asking this questions as "casper is a student and will remain a student"
its my request to all of u to come forward and waste some time on those foolish questions, i believe it will help me and help u too, moreover, the next generation of traders who are going to be ichartian in near future, may be benefited greatly by ur kind answers
my dear friends, will u help me as always u did??? |
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veerappan
Expert
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 3680
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| Post: #19 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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[color=red]casper only two three things is enough dear.....
1. dont come and sit with any mind set... this stock will go up or this will surely come down like this...or in other words...i bought this stock at some price....100% it will shoot up...market is also plus... other market is also plus...like this mind set shd not be there.....u bought with some indicator....... that indicator is saying sell...just throw it out... and u wont go short maximum times...because of sentiment.. and more-over u have lost in long side already... mercy will come [ u wont kill that stock man]......no no we shd not short...let it buy comes we will buy like this type of thoughts will run...u wont short...it will be like a lower freez also happen....
2. second thing....how much u can loose in a trade...that is very very important.... suppose your indicator gives buy ...then bought.... with big qty .... then nervous will come.... before your indicator says u will quit.... but it will turn in a big way.... so please be with your capacity....
3. confidence......hope faith ...just destroy these words..... u will gain 10 trades....in a day itself u will loose all and extra from your pocket...y because u will wait .... u r indicator given sell also u wont sell...because last 10 days plus.... please dont do that....
anything else? to say....from your side? [/color] |
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kanna
White Belt
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 91
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| Post: #20 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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dear casper
how we will choice our stocks to trade?
i trade nifty 90% and banknifty 8% and balance 2% only stcks that too dlf and reliance only. i really want to know how to choose the stocks. i know that if nifty is moving 1% in a day there are stocks which will move 5 or 10 or even upper circuit at 20%. i am interested in learning that. and i dont know how some experts in our ichart are scanning so many stocks. even small caps
what signal we use (as of now) to buy or sell??
as of now i trade based on some levels which i drawn in my chart. nothing great. take last one year chart. draw horizontal lines marking tops and bottoms, in lower tf. like 10min or 15 min. then mark gaps which are not closed on the same day itself in a different color. do mark this for first six months and watch how price is reacting at this levels for the next six months. these levels are like traffic signals for me. in normal days the people(Price) will obey the signal and mostly these signals (levels) will be respected. but if a VIP is coming then all signals will go off. same way when there is a strong trend dont expect ths to hold
what is my stop loss? i lost a lot in past by not having any SL or by not respecting that . still some times i will think of giving more room to my SL by adjusting it little here and there, which i want to avoid
which market do we trade? fut/opt/stock?
i trade futures mostly. very recently thinking of trading ITM options to avoid high STT, margin etc
how much we are satisfied with the results, what is the success rates??
still i am able to break even only on a monthly basis. some months are good and some are bad. Jimmie told once in shout box that if you find your stop loss and if it is small then that trade is good to have. i want to play the support or resistance levels with a small stop loss as much as possible
and i would like to add the following questions
which market action will make you more sad?
for me, some times, i will square my longs at a lower level and market will reverse exactly at that point and end of the day when i note the trades in my ledger i will notice with lot of pain that i have bought at higher levels and sold at day's low. this is hurting my ego a lot |
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vishytns
White Belt
Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 206
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| Post: #21 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I am so happy to see the way veeru sir and others spending time for explaining. Thank u so much.
After reading this few questions are haunting me.
1. Let us assume that i come without mind, or without any feelings. What do i do BUY or SELL?
2. Do i really look at manjus or sumesh or caspers calls or even veeru sirs calls?
3. Do i really need to undestand technical or fundamental analysis?
4. Do i really need to bother about news or rumours like manmohan singh resigned?
5. Do i really need to bother about global markets?
These are the few questions i as a newbie have
please feel free to guide newbies like me
thanks in advance. Casperji thanks |
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singh.ravee
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 678
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| Post: #22 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I really like one idea of as4manju sir. He wrote" Keep ur sl order in system and not in mind".
I think that the major point veeru sir is trying to bring in is "Dont trade with any preconcieved notion. One is vulnerable to losses irrespective of one's experience in trading."
thanks and regards
ravee |
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casper
Green Belt
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 1315
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| Post: #23 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| veerappan wrote: | [color=red]casper only two three things is enough dear.....
1. dont come and sit with any mind set... this stock will go up or this will surely come down like this...or in other words...i bought this stock at some price....100% it will shoot up...market is also plus... other market is also plus...like this mind set shd not be there.....u bought with some indicator....... that indicator is saying sell...just throw it out... and u wont go short maximum times...because of sentiment.. and more-over u have lost in long side already... mercy will come [ u wont kill that stock man]......no no we shd not short...let it buy comes we will buy like this type of thoughts will run...u wont short...it will be like a lower freez also happen....
2. second thing....how much u can loose in a trade...that is very very important.... suppose your indicator gives buy ...then bought.... with big qty .... then nervous will come.... before your indicator says u will quit.... but it will turn in a big way.... so please be with your capacity....
3. confidence......hope faith ...just destroy these words..... u will gain 10 trades....in a day itself u will loose all and extra from your pocket...y because u will wait .... u r indicator given sell also u wont sell...because last 10 days plus.... please dont do that....
anything else? to say....from your side? [/color] |
hii veru sir
thanks for ur guidelines
i must say, its not u but ur experience is talking here, u have pointed out only two three things which really can turn an ordinary guy in to a successful trader
here i am writing ur points in my word so that u plz confirm me if i understood u properly or not
1.i should be alert all the time and whenever my reason for buy/sell goes out, i must square up my position to collect the profit/minimize my loss
2. i should think of sl 1st then decide how many quantity of stock i can buy/sell with my permissible loss, means stop loss 1st then think about ur trade, so that, if,by any means market go against me, it does not kill me in a single trade
3.being a single person, i can not control the market alone, so that i should not be confident of the market at any time
i will be alert and not let market force to control me either
i will decide what to do in market but if my reason is wrong, i must get my sl hit and will not hold any loosing side,
in fact, i should keep sl in profit side too,(as u always say in forum)
am i right sir???
plz confirm me as and when possible |
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casper
Green Belt
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 1315
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| Post: #24 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| kanna wrote: | dear casper
how we will choice our stocks to trade?
i trade nifty 90% and banknifty 8% and balance 2% only stcks that too dlf and reliance only. i really want to know how to choose the stocks. i know that if nifty is moving 1% in a day there are stocks which will move 5 or 10 or even upper circuit at 20%. i am interested in learning that. and i dont know how some experts in our ichart are scanning so many stocks. even small caps
what signal we use (as of now) to buy or sell??
as of now i trade based on some levels which i drawn in my chart. nothing great. take last one year chart. draw horizontal lines marking tops and bottoms, in lower tf. like 10min or 15 min. then mark gaps which are not closed on the same day itself in a different color. do mark this for first six months and watch how price is reacting at this levels for the next six months. these levels are like traffic signals for me. in normal days the people(Price) will obey the signal and mostly these signals (levels) will be respected. but if a VIP is coming then all signals will go off. same way when there is a strong trend dont expect ths to hold
what is my stop loss? i lost a lot in past by not having any SL or by not respecting that . still some times i will think of giving more room to my SL by adjusting it little here and there, which i want to avoid
which market do we trade? fut/opt/stock?
i trade futures mostly. very recently thinking of trading ITM options to avoid high STT, margin etc
how much we are satisfied with the results, what is the success rates??
still i am able to break even only on a monthly basis. some months are good and some are bad. Jimmie told once in shout box that if you find your stop loss and if it is small then that trade is good to have. i want to play the support or resistance levels with a small stop loss as much as possible
and i would like to add the following questions
which market action will make you more sad?
for me, some times, i will square my longs at a lower level and market will reverse exactly at that point and end of the day when i note the trades in my ledger i will notice with lot of pain that i have bought at higher levels and sold at day's low. this is hurting my ego a lot |
thanks for ur kind response kanna
im reading ur method minutely and i will disturb u if any question arise in my mind
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as4manju
White Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 390
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| Post: #25 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hi casper,
i have many times posted many times in my thread how i work.. but one last time rocket science explained (hahahaha just kidding any number times i ll write)..
1.choice of stock..
limit my self to large cap index stocks and few select mid cap stocks with good biz and mgt.. avoid sectors which are not in fasion or use it to short(currently telcom,real estate,infra to name a few).. stay with leaders for long trades..
2. signals...
only simple trendlines.. like to keep it simple
3. stop loss
well its like 3:1 ratio or previous supports or resistances
4.tradeFnO/Cash/Opt
Wel i dont trade quite often just few occesional trades but when ever i trade its mostly futures
5.how satisfied..
well most of the cases i m satisfied i treat each trade individually and dont tend to see the cumilative sucess as u tend to get emotional on the trades always trying to be on the win side..
its just me and i m not perfect hahah
Regards
Manju
| casper wrote: | HELP REQUIRED
hii
a great discussion is going on, and i think as vishy said in his starting post of the thread, me too believe that this thread is going to be a treasure for peoples who are trying to develop their own strategy for trading
in this regard, VERU sir told us about his parts, he wrote in details about his love and interest in simple trading with less indicator and more of a number game, while Ravee frankly posted what kinds of mistakes he faced and still facing, its takes lot of courage to call spade a spade and admitting own mistake in an open forum is not a joke, we must salute him that he showed great temperament, his posts in other threads are also not an exception
but with due respect to all of my friend, a few questions, as and when i go through this forum, is coming into my mind, so whereas peoples are here to answer vishy mostly, i want to ask all of my friends a few questions from my part also (i hope vishy wont mind my intervention)
all of my friends are talking about "mind" mostly they are elaborating veru sir's version, veru sir is a very successful person in market beyond doubt, his
more than 20 years exp (as per another website) is the greatest certificate of his success
but how about all of us?
how we will choice our stocks to trade?
what signal we use (as of now) to buy or sell??
what is my stop loss?
which market do we trade? fut/opt/stock?
how much we are satisfied with the results, what is the success rates??
these are the foolish questions which are hunting me while reading the forum
will all my brothers and sisters come forward and elaborate their versions?
i know my id is casper, the owner of the id is more or less successful too, he has got his method to trade and he is followed by a few good and kind peoples too
but that does not means casper "knows all"
i am asking this questions as "casper is a student and will remain a student"
its my request to all of u to come forward and waste some time on those foolish questions, i believe it will help me and help u too, moreover, the next generation of traders who are going to be ichartian in near future, may be benefited greatly by ur kind answers
my dear friends, will u help me as always u did??? |
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casper
Green Belt
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 1315
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| Post: #26 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| singh.ravee wrote: | Hi,
I really like one idea of as4manju sir. He wrote" Keep ur sl order in system and not in mind".
I think that the major point veeru sir is trying to bring in is "Dont trade with any preconcieved notion. One is vulnerable to losses irrespective of one's experience in trading."
thanks and regards
ravee |
yes ravee, thats a very important suggestion
starting from vera sir, to jimmie sir to all other senior traders, including manju, are focusing on this money management rule
its like wearing a helmet before u drive a motor-bike
very important yet most of us dont do it, if we put on helmet, then only for fear of traffic guards
but we have no traffic guards here so we are not wearing "stock market helmet" and accidents are happening |
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as4manju
White Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 390
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| Post: #27 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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What happens when u follow fundamental analysis...  First u loose Funds then u turn mental...
TA Jai ho..
Just kidding on the fundamentals i ve great respect for those guys who crack their heads on arriving at fair value based on various model in excels sheets..
for a common person like me and u i would suggest u simple way just look into the products its future.. simple evalutions like for banking per branch cost(mkt cap/number of branches) for a hospital number of beds ratio..
what ever u do always keep it simple
Regards
Manju
| vishytns wrote: | I am so happy to see the way veeru sir and others spending time for explaining. Thank u so much.
After reading this few questions are haunting me.
1. Let us assume that i come without mind, or without any feelings. What do i do BUY or SELL?
2. Do i really look at manjus or sumesh or caspers calls or even veeru sirs calls?
3. Do i really need to undestand technical or fundamental analysis?
4. Do i really need to bother about news or rumours like manmohan singh resigned?
5. Do i really need to bother about global markets?
These are the few questions i as a newbie have
please feel free to guide newbies like me
thanks in advance. Casperji thanks |
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casper
Green Belt
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 1315
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| Post: #28 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| as4manju wrote: | Hi casper,
i have many times posted many times in my thread how i work.. but one last time rocket science explained (hahahaha just kidding any number times i ll write)..
1.choice of stock..
limit my self to large cap index stocks and few select mid cap stocks with good biz and mgt.. avoid sectors which are not in fasion or use it to short(currently telcom,real estate,infra to name a few).. stay with leaders for long trades..
2. signals...
only simple trendlines.. like to keep it simple
3. stop loss
well its like 3:1 ratio or previous supports or resistances
4.tradeFnO/Cash/Opt
Wel i dont trade quite often just few occesional trades but when ever i trade its mostly futures
5.how satisfied..
well most of the cases i m satisfied i treat each trade individually and dont tend to see the cumilative sucess as u tend to get emotional on the trades always trying to be on the win side..
its just me and i m not perfect hahah
Regards
Manju
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thanks for ur detailed reply manju,
yes i read ur rocket method in ur thread too, but u see its a temptation for me to bring all of u in a single thread and learn what a trade means to u
as u said, u r not prefect but its u, its so true, we are not perfect but we are we,
and when we have so many experts who are always willing to help, then why should we loose in the game??
what i feel, when, after all of our responses, we will see this thread, even most casually, we will be able to introspect our trades and will all be mutually benefited
and u know, with the blessing of the GOD and senior trades like VERUSIR, ST SIR and others, we are some what, going on in the market
but this discussion, i think will be of immense help for the freshers too, as they will learn on which points seniors do focus, how they manage risks, how they book profit and so on |
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vishytns
White Belt
Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 206
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| Post: #29 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Manju/Casper,
Thanks for your guidance.
How do we keep trades SIMPLE?
Could you guys explain with some small example? You can explain with your own strategy in mind.
Once again guys....
for all your valuable time....
Vishy |
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as4manju
White Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 390
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| Post: #30 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmm,
one question to u back what do u get when u drink a mix of rum,vodka,visky,jin,wine,beer..? bad hangover(warning drinking is bad to health and personally i dont drink either)
The point i want to tel is lot ppl take RSI,MACD,ROC and god knows what all indicators as a combination to determine to buy or sell and what do u get as a end result of such trade..? u know it..
first find single way or indicator perfect it dont try too many things..
The secrect of happy married life is staying loyal to one partner the same way the in trading stick to ur method dont experiments..
Like me i dont use any indicators as i ve seen most of the indicators are extensions of the prices and price is supreme...
Regards
Manju
| vishytns wrote: | Manju/Casper,
Thanks for your guidance.
How do we keep trades SIMPLE?
Could you guys explain with some small example? You can explain with your own strategy in mind.
Once again guys....
for all your valuable time....
Vishy |
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