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Pair Trading - How big money trades |
Alchemist Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 853
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Post: #1 Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: Pair Trading - How big money trades |
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After trading for almost last 10 years very actively and sharing a lot of strategies with fellow traders, what I found was that each strategy had its own pros and cons... every strategy will have a good run but every now and then will also have a bad run which will cause huge drawdowns in any accounts.
Now while an individual trader can live through these ups and downs, however the professional traders/hedge funds who keep getting fresh capital infusion through new customers every month cannot live with a probability of running into a 'bad series of trades' in any month. This is for 2 reasons:
1) While the existing customers may live through it, the new customers added that month may get huge losses and that may lead to exodus and bad reputation.
2) When trade with huge quantities, small yet consistent returns per month matter more to customers than large but sporadic or inconsistent profits.
So they create strategies which do not completely rely on their accuracy to predict the market movements, but rely on more conservative and neutral strategies. One of them is Delta hedging strategy which I have been actively trading and post everyday about in Icharts forum under a different thread.
I will be dedicating this thread to the second strategy big money deploys, called Pair Trading.
More to come on it in the next post.
Cheers
SH |
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anusantosh White Belt
Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 105
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Post: #2 Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting... well awaited boss... |
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Alchemist Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 853
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Post: #3 Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Pair trading requires looking at past correlation, co-integration, spreads, ratios etc. I would not spend my energies explaining what these are as people can easily google about them.
Once suitable pairs are found, one needs to look at backtested data for these pairs, average holding time etc before enterting into the trade.
It requires a lot of money management and cash neutrality as well.
I will be positing some of my trades that have successfully gone through all of the above filters to see how they perform.
THIS IS JUST AN EXPERIMENTAL THREAD AND PLEASE DO NOT START TRADING THESE BLINDLY. SEE FOR A FEW WEEKS FIRST.
Cheers
SH |
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chetan83 Brown Belt
Joined: 19 Feb 2010 Posts: 2036
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Post: #4 Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:04 am Post subject: |
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All the best Alchem
As usual new thread on a very old method on pair trading.........
Keep shining !! |
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Alchemist Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 853
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Post: #5 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Pair trade initiated today
Sold BankIndia Fut at 135.05 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Bought OrientBank Fut at 140.20 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Cheers
SH |
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Alchemist Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 853
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Post: #6 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Alchemist wrote: | Pair trade initiated today
Sold BankIndia Fut at 135.05 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Bought OrientBank Fut at 140.20 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Cheers
SH |
Bank India fut now at 136.50 = Loss 13050
Orient Bank fut now at 142.20 = Profit 18000
This is Rs 4950 profit intraday itself. I am carrying this position to tomorrow for more gains though.
Cheers
SH |
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chetan83 Brown Belt
Joined: 19 Feb 2010 Posts: 2036
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Post: #7 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Alchemist wrote: | Alchemist wrote: | Pair trade initiated today
Sold BankIndia Fut at 135.05 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Bought OrientBank Fut at 140.20 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Cheers
SH |
Bank India fut now at 136.50 = Loss 13050
Orient Bank fut now at 142.20 = Profit 18000
This is Rs 4950 profit intraday itself. I am carrying this position to tomorrow for more gains though.
Cheers
SH |
lot size is 6000. |
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Alchemist Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 853
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Post: #8 Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Alchemist wrote: | Pair trade initiated today
Sold BankIndia Fut at 135.05 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Bought OrientBank Fut at 140.20 (1 lot 9000 qty)
Cheers
SH |
Had been travelling so couldn't update this thread.
This position was squared off on 6th July at 11.54 AM as below
Sold BankIndia Fut at 135.05, Bought back at 138.70 = 6000 x 3.65 = 21900 Loss
Bought OrientBank Fut at 140.20, Bought back at 144.60 = 6000 x 4.40 = Rs 26400 profit
Net profit = 26400-21900 = Rs 4500
cheers
SH
PS : Chetan thanks for spotting it, the lot size is indeed 6000 shares and not 9000 |
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kartik_krish White Belt
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 5
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Post: #9 Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well done Alc, are you using beta decoupling, or ADF to determine stationarity and ideal pairs to trade?Further are you using ratios or spreads? |
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Alchemist Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 853
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Post: #10 Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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kartik_krish wrote: | Well done Alc, are you using beta decoupling, or ADF to determine stationarity and ideal pairs to trade?Further are you using ratios or spreads? |
Hey there,
I am using correlation/co-integration to identity suitable pairs ... and using both ratios and spreads to identify trades i.e I will trade when both ratios and spreads are showing a similar trade.
I am not posting anymore trades right now as this is quarterly earning results month so I will trade pairs only after the relevant results are out.
Cheers
SH |
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chetan83 Brown Belt
Joined: 19 Feb 2010 Posts: 2036
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Post: #11 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Alchemist wrote: | kartik_krish wrote: | Well done Alc, are you using beta decoupling, or ADF to determine stationarity and ideal pairs to trade?Further are you using ratios or spreads? |
Hey there,
I am using correlation/co-integration to identity suitable pairs ... and using both ratios and spreads to identify trades i.e I will trade when both ratios and spreads are showing a similar trade.
I am not posting anymore trades right now as this is quarterly earning results month so I will trade pairs only after the relevant results are out.
Cheers
SH |
Hi Alchemist,
Any pair trades? |
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AJAY.4ACE White Belt
Joined: 23 Sep 2014 Posts: 2
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Post: #12 Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:56 am Post subject: |
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quantsapp premium subscriber wil get all pair co relation data in fno along with their relation and backtest too ....it will eliminate ur 90% hardwork finding d trades....... |
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