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SH 30 minutes swinging yorker method - Nifty (Alchemist) |
Alchemist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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Post: #286  Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| hmpatil wrote: | Next day mkts gapped down and made low of 8277 nifty spot, RSI hit below 70 (oversold) hence 8250 or 8200 puts (june series) to be sold to hedge (target 34 EMA to book shorted puts).
Next day mkts touched 34 EMA at around 8346 so profits in puts booked (30-35 points profit)
Now how to calculate sold put/call profit /loss in final calculation.Can somebody pl. explain it with example?
Regards |
Its simple ... ATM options usually have a 0.5 to 0.6 delta (i.e if nifty goes up 10 points, calls will go up by 5-6 points)...
So in this case as nifty rose from 8277 to 8346 (around 70 points rise), the puts price would have gone down by 30-40 points....
Cheers
SH
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NiftyTracer
White Belt
Joined: 05 Feb 2015
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| Post: #287 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Alchemist,
little query from trade execution viewpoint:-
After 5/200 c/o, do you wait till high/low is taken out before placing buy/sell order or straightaway place SL-M order above/below high/low of c/o bar.
There are issues in both circumstances like, if we wait for high/low to be taken out before placing order, the price may run away. On the other hand if we place SL-M or SL-L limit order for entry, price may just spike to give us entry and then proceed in opposite direction to take SL.
What kind of orders do you use?
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hmpatil
White Belt
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 59
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| Post: #288 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Alc ji.
Problem still remains.
If i buy the put/call my final calculation is simple.But i would like to know what if i sell the put that premium will be added in the final calculation?
Now if i sell the put say at 80 premium and as market goes up value of sold put premium will also rise, say when it becomes 100 then i square up the position.Now my problem is how to calculate all this including premium value to know whether i am in profit or loss?
Pl. guide me by giving full example in case i sold the future and sold put to hedge the position.Market goes up & i square up future in loss and covered my sold put in profit.So in spite of getting premium of sold put now how much loss i made in this case?
Regards.
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Alchemist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #289 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| hmpatil wrote: | Thanks Alc ji.
Problem still remains.
If i buy the put/call my final calculation is simple.But i would like to know what if i sell the put that premium will be added in the final calculation?
Now if i sell the put say at 80 premium and as market goes up value of sold put premium will also rise, say when it becomes 100 then i square up the position.Now my problem is how to calculate all this including premium value to know whether i am in profit or loss?
Pl. guide me by giving full example in case i sold the future and sold put to hedge the position.Market goes up & i square up future in loss and covered my sold put in profit.So in spite of getting premium of sold put now how much loss i made in this case?
Regards. |
I have given you example below in my live trades..what else do you need?
Cheers
SH
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Alchemist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #290 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NiftyTracer wrote: | Alchemist,
little query from trade execution viewpoint:-
After 5/200 c/o, do you wait till high/low is taken out before placing buy/sell order or straightaway place SL-M order above/below high/low of c/o bar.
There are issues in both circumstances like, if we wait for high/low to be taken out before placing order, the price may run away. On the other hand if we place SL-M or SL-L limit order for entry, price may just spike to give us entry and then proceed in opposite direction to take SL.
What kind of orders do you use? |
When the crossover candle closes .. I place my order at thats candle highs/lows in advance (adjust NF prices accordingly).
Cheers
SH
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Alchemist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #291 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Current trade
Longs at around 8406 nifty spot. NF longs taken. However as RSI was above 70 already, shorted some 8400 calls to hedge (target to book when nifty spot touches 34 EMA).
Nifty now touched 34 EMA .. I have booked all shorted calls at 128 (shorted at 158) ..so 30 points profit. Now only NF longs held.
Cheers
SH
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Hydrogen
White Belt
Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 87
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| Post: #292 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Alchemist wrote: | Current trade
Longs at around 8406 nifty spot. NF longs taken. However as RSI was above 70 already, shorted some 8400 calls to hedge (target to book when nifty spot touches 34 EMA).
Nifty now touched 34 EMA .. I have booked all shorted calls at 128 (shorted at 158) ..so 30 points profit. Now only NF longs held.
Cheers
SH |
Hi Alchemist
Are we still holding Nifty Fut Long as bearish 5 by 34 crossover has happened above 200 EMA ?
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Alchemist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #293 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Previous Trade
Longs at around 8406 nifty spot. NF longs taken. However as RSI was above 70 already, shorted some 8400 calls to hedge which were booked this morning when NS touched 34 EMA with 30 point profit.
Later NS 5/34 bullish crossover happened and shorts longs exited at 8380 NS levels (loss of 26 points). Overall no profit no loss in this trade overall
Current Trade
Later 5/200 bearish yorker happened at 8315 NS so shorts taken. As RSI was hitting below 30 at that time, sold some 8250 PE as well to hedge.
Cheers
SH
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Hydrogen
White Belt
Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 87
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| Post: #294 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Alchemist wrote: | Previous Trade
Longs at around 8406 nifty spot. NF longs taken. However as RSI was above 70 already, shorted some 8400 calls to hedge which were booked this morning when NS touched 34 EMA with 30 point profit.
Later NS 5/34 bullish crossover happened and shorts longs exited at 8380 NS levels (loss of 26 points). Overall no profit no loss in this trade overall
Current Trade
Later 5/200 bearish yorker happened at 8315 NS so shorts taken. As RSI was hitting below 30 at that time, sold some 8250 PE as well to hedge.
Cheers
SH |
Thanks Alchemist for your help/reply
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Alchemist
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Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #295 Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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8315 NS shorts and hedged position (8250 PE shorted) continue.
Partial profits can be taken anytime now as mkts are extremely oversold (200 points down after shorting) ...
Shorted puts to be booked on any rally to touch 34 EMA ...
Cheers
SH
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sumesh_sol
Brown Belt
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 2344
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| Post: #296 Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Alchemist wrote: | 8315 NS shorts and hedged position (8250 PE shorted) continue.
Partial profits can be taken anytime now as mkts are extremely oversold (200 points down after shorting) ...
Shorted puts to be booked on any rally to touch 34 EMA ...
Cheers
SH |
Hi Alchemist,
Oversold / Overbought has always been a tricky issue, as oversold on one time frame may not be os in higher timeframe. I found the next biggest timeframe where NF is OS in 2hr. Since we are already in profit, and to protect our profit I will exit at breach of high of previous candle ( in this case it is 8201). By this time it will also touch 34 ema, so we can close shorted put also. This way we are also allowing trade some room.
This is my view and plan, others may take their own call.
Thanks
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amitagg
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Posts: 4559
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| Post: #297 Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| i cannot understand one thing. If shorted put is used as hedge then it should go out with squared futures ( leaving only difference in delta as profit if taken at time of trade initiation delta of futures considered 1) . Treating shorted put as separate trade is "counter directional" to strategy , and how it can be assumed that in all market conditions the put shall yield profit . In some situation what prohibits 5/34 crossover below the squared futures value if market continues to fall. Hypothetical question may deserve hypothetical answer.
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Alchemist
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Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #298 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Alchemist wrote: | 8315 NS shorts and hedged position (8250 PE shorted) continue.
Partial profits can be taken anytime now as mkts are extremely oversold (200 points down after shorting) ...
Shorted puts to be booked on any rally to touch 34 EMA ...
Cheers
SH |
Nifty made a new low and recovered to close flat ..RSI divergence becoming more pronounced now on 30 mins TF ... 34 EMA might get touched soon ....
until then .. no change in current position.
Cheers
SH
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Alchemist
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 853
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| Post: #299 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:31 am Post subject: |
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As expected...the positive divergence on rsi kicked in a rally to touch 34 ema allowing me to exit the shorted puts.
Nifty reversed from 34 ema, just a few points away from triggering the tsl...and closed at almost day's lows.
NF Yorker shorts again in 200 points profit and not oversold anymore based on Rsi so shorts held without any hedge.
If nifty falls more and becomes oversold again..I will again sell some atm or otm puts.
Cheers
SH
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ragarwal
Yellow Belt
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 582
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| Post: #300 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| 34 Ema is at 8336.plz clarify.
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