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Swing Trading : The Speculator way |
sambhaji_t
White Belt
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 135
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Post: #256  Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: Trading rejections |
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Very well done, good efforts, thanks for sharing with all of us. 
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ashis
White Belt
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 75
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| Post: #257 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: Re: can any one answer this question .......please?? |
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Varun
Your observation is good.
Did you get answer of this observation?
If yes then guide us.
Regards
Ashis
| varun_alld wrote: | ...on 18 dec the swing pivot of 5048 was established because after rejection on 5048 nifty made a new low of 4975...
...now on 21 dec nifty made a further low of 4938 at around 3:15 PM?why was the swing pivot not changed from 5048 to 4988.55?? since 4988 was the closest rejection from 34 EMA on 21st dec....before nifty made a new low of 4938..???
if this 4988 swing pivot had been declared then spec's next day (22 dec) move would have been justified??..
Am i right??  |
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Padkondu
White Belt
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 120
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| Post: #258 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:13 am Post subject: Swing pivots, entry signals - please clarify. |
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Dear Speculator/Sekharinvest.
I have gone through the entire thread recently and appreciate your efforts in bringing out a swing trading strategy, easy yet powerful way of trading rejections.
I wanted to summarize the system as follows in three steps. Please correct me if I am wrong on any point/view.
Key points:
1. The strategy involves choosing an EMA which is some what neutral to the price action, in a particular time frame.
13 or 21 ema for 60 min timeframe.
34 or 55 ema for 30 min or 15 min timeframe.
On my observations I found that the 60 min timeframe gives trades with more reliability, bigger stops, less whipsaws and less trading opportunities, while 15 min timeframe offers more trades, quick entry, and small stops of course with more whipsaws. In this scenario, the 30 min timeframe offers a good bargain.
2. One has to identify the pull back towards the ema, and there are certain points to observe, like rsi5 moving from OB to OS or vice versa as the case may be. there is enough information int this thread to understand the valid pull back.
3. This involves identifying the swing pivots. There are two cases here. (a) Cross over of the pivot ema, as we may call this. (b) Pullback from the ema. On studying the charts in this thread, I got the following doubts.
1. Some times the points of rejection from pivot-ema are marked as the swing pivots where as some times the extremes (tops or bottoms) after the pull back are marked as swing pivots. Which is the correct method?
2. Sometimes the breach of previous swing pivot is marked as the entry while some times the entry is shown, just after the rejection. Criteria of entry as shown in some charts are a bit ambiguous. May be they are posted by some one else.
What is the method of entry in each case (a) crossover of ema and (b) rejection from the ema.
Exit of course is a matter of convenience, and the objective of individuals.
I would like to prepare a notes for myself, basing on all your comments in the forum, bring all key points to one place so that it is handy for me in follwoing the strategy, once there is a clarification on above two doubts.
One more doubt, what is the reason for choosing an ema that is neutral to price action. pullbacks and crossovers occur with any ema, provided that if we can identify a ranged market by some other means like DMI
I request you to post a chart example for identifying swing pivots as well as entry i each caseas above.
Regards
Padkondu
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shekharinvest
Yellow Belt
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 549
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| Post: #259 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Ashis & Padkondu
Shall rivert to your query when I get a little bit of free time.
SHEKHAR
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nsinojia
Yellow Belt
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 624
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| Post: #260 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| shekharinvest wrote: | Ashis & Padkondu
Shall rivert to your query when I get a little bit of free time.
SHEKHAR |
 spec sir, i have been studying your thread since long and came up with an idea that your thread should be known as "swing trading calculator way instead of specular way" since swing trading is primarily based on calculated risk management 
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Ravi_S
Yellow Belt
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 569
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| Post: #261 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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This Thread has been eluding me for quite sometime now... And now I realize this thread has completed one Year...  Time really flies... But it's never too late, the kind of feedback people have given in this thread has prompted me to go through this...
Its OK to be late than never.... Let me go through this and fire my round of questions...
Shekar/Spec.. Be ready for the 
Regards
Ravi
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Speculator
Expert
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 149
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| Post: #262 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Casper,
Yes, it's a valid rejection. My purpose of the post on the rejections was for you folks to be able to identify rejections with conviction, without having to ask me. As long as it satisifes the rules i have mentioned, it is a vaid rejection.
Smart,
Tha chart is not complete to properly identify pivots. I need some more previous data to identify the pivots properly.
Chetan,
I have not experimented much in the 5-min timeframe. So i cannot answer with confidence it works in 5-min. One of icharts members Jai2000 said he has been able to use swing pivot method on 5-min silver charts using 34 ema. You can talk to him for more info.
Ashish,
I am not sure if i understand your question correctly. Can you post a chart and mark the candle in question, so that i can answer your question correctly.
Padkondu,
1) Yes in general, higher the timeframe less whipsaws and lower the timeframe, more the whipsaws. There's always a tradeoff between the whipsaws and the size of the stop loss. But selection of the timeframe should be made keeping in mind the volatiltity of the market of the market. In high volatile situations, it's better to use 15-min charts to catch the turns effectively. In low volatile trends, it's better to stick to 30 or 60-min to avoid jumping in and out too many times.
2) No, do not use RSI as an indicator to identify pullbacks. Price and EMA should be the onyl consideration.
3) Pivots are always the high or low of the swing. The low/high of rejection candle is not the pivot.
Entry can be done is two ways
(i) Break of a swing pivot. This is a very agressive method and can have whipsaws.
(ii) Rejection is a safer method. Always try to enter on rejections. The only drawback of rejections is in a runaway market, the pullback to ema might come from very levels, which will cause you to lose a big chunk of the move.
If you using method (i) for entry i.e break of swing pivot, do it only on 60-min TF and use the 60-min candle high/low as the stop loss.
The entry/exit rules and identification of pivots is clearly explained in this thread
http://www.icharts.in/forum/entry-exit-and-stop-loss-guidelines-swing-pivots-system-t2269.html
- Speculator 
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popoy
White Belt
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 18
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| Post: #263 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Speculator wrote: | Casper,
Yes, it's a valid rejection. My purpose of the post on the rejections was for you folks to be able to identify rejections with conviction, without having to ask me. As long as it satisifes the rules i have mentioned, it is a vaid rejection.
Smart,
Tha chart is not complete to properly identify pivots. I need some more previous data to identify the pivots properly.
Chetan,
I have not experimented much in the 5-min timeframe. So i cannot answer with confidence it works in 5-min. One of icharts members Jai2000 said he has been able to use swing pivot method on 5-min silver charts using 34 ema. You can talk to him for more info.
Ashish,
I am not sure if i understand your question correctly. Can you post a chart and mark the candle in question, so that i can answer your question correctly.
Padkondu,
1) Yes in general, higher the timeframe less whipsaws and lower the timeframe, more the whipsaws. There's always a tradeoff between the whipsaws and the size of the stop loss. But selection of the timeframe should be made keeping in mind the volatiltity of the market of the market. In high volatile situations, it's better to use 15-min charts to catch the turns effectively. In low volatile trends, it's better to stick to 30 or 60-min to avoid jumping in and out too many times.
2) No, do not use RSI as an indicator to identify pullbacks. Price and EMA should be the onyl consideration.
3) Pivots are always the high or low of the swing. The low/high of rejection candle is not the pivot.
Entry can be done is two ways
(i) Break of a swing pivot. This is a very agressive method and can have whipsaws.
(ii) Rejection is a safer method. Always try to enter on rejections. The only drawback of rejections is in a runaway market, the pullback to ema might come from very levels, which will cause you to lose a big chunk of the move.
If you using method (i) for entry i.e break of swing pivot, do it only on 60-min TF and use the 60-min candle high/low as the stop loss.
The entry/exit rules and identification of pivots is clearly explained in this thread
http://www.icharts.in/forum/entry-exit-and-stop-loss-guidelines-swing-pivots-system-t2269.html
- Speculator |
 swing trading rocks
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Padkondu
White Belt
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 120
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| Post: #264 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: Thanks Speculator! |
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| Speculator wrote: | Casper,
Yes, it's a valid rejection. My purpose of the post on the rejections was for you folks to be able to identify rejections with conviction, without having to ask me. As long as it satisifes the rules i have mentioned, it is a vaid rejection.
Smart,
Tha chart is not complete to properly identify pivots. I need some more previous data to identify the pivots properly.
Chetan,
I have not experimented much in the 5-min timeframe. So i cannot answer with confidence it works in 5-min. One of icharts members Jai2000 said he has been able to use swing pivot method on 5-min silver charts using 34 ema. You can talk to him for more info.
Ashish,
I am not sure if i understand your question correctly. Can you post a chart and mark the candle in question, so that i can answer your question correctly.
Padkondu,
1) Yes in general, higher the timeframe less whipsaws and lower the timeframe, more the whipsaws. There's always a tradeoff between the whipsaws and the size of the stop loss. But selection of the timeframe should be made keeping in mind the volatiltity of the market of the market. In high volatile situations, it's better to use 15-min charts to catch the turns effectively. In low volatile trends, it's better to stick to 30 or 60-min to avoid jumping in and out too many times.
2) No, do not use RSI as an indicator to identify pullbacks. Price and EMA should be the onyl consideration.
3) Pivots are always the high or low of the swing. The low/high of rejection candle is not the pivot.
Entry can be done is two ways
(i) Break of a swing pivot. This is a very agressive method and can have whipsaws.
(ii) Rejection is a safer method. Always try to enter on rejections. The only drawback of rejections is in a runaway market, the pullback to ema might come from very levels, which will cause you to lose a big chunk of the move.
If you using method (i) for entry i.e break of swing pivot, do it only on 60-min TF and use the 60-min candle high/low as the stop loss.
The entry/exit rules and identification of pivots is clearly explained in this thread
http://www.icharts.in/forum/entry-exit-and-stop-loss-guidelines-swing-pivots-system-t2269.html
- Speculator |
Speculator.
Thanks for your time and effort in explaining the system. but one doubt remains.
The question regarding the swing points. i already understand that swing points are high and low of the swing. rather, i was not clear in asking my question. let me ask clearly and specifically.
case 1. the swing involves bullish corss of ema from low to high, which is taken as swing point hi or lo, of the swing?
case 2. the swing involves the bearish cross of ema, from high to low. which is swing point hi or lo, of the swing?
case 3 the swing is below the ema and gets rejected., which is swing point high or low, of the swing?
case 4. the swing is above ema and gets rejected. which is the swing point, hi or low, of the swing?
i am asking this question because in charts that are posted here, and also the write ups, each time, different criteria is taken. some times the high of the swing is shown as swing pivot where as for the same case as above, low is shown as swing point.
or shall i consider bot hi and low of each swing as pivots, swing point high/swing point low.
the most important point here in our system is identification of swing points, and there can not be conflicting rules in selection of swing points.
all other things are ok, like identification of a valid swing, identification of valid rejection and making a new recovery high etc, all are understood. they are very clearly explained.
regarding entry at rejection, I look for a candle stick reversal patten for taking entry along the trend, to support the system. it mostly happens. but is it enough if the low/high of a rejection candle is breached?
apart from the rules you set, to be a valid swing, i take only those moves that are above certin % of pice, depending the time frame i watch. of course, this is for me only, need not be a rule on your setup.
currently i am, watching the system with 60 min timeframe and 21ema. and seems to be a good choice for a lazy fellow like me. even in the current system i follow, i use 60 min. so i wanted watch this system also on 60 min.
regards
padkondu.
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Jai2000
White Belt
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 346
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| Post: #265 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject: Trading wth 5TF pivots |
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Hello Chetan83,
I recently trading with 5TF pivots @ Silvermini.I traded just 2 as of now.
1. 44177(18/1/'11) to 44760(19/1)- 583 points (high was 44977)
2.44760(19/1/"11) to 42678(21/1)- 2082 points(low was 42291)
Now i'm long from 42678 wth sl of 42291.It may create new pivot before one more small or high fall.
Chetan in 5Tf, i enter with direct pivot crosing & will add if i get lower or higher rates.I'm not much satisfying wth 5 TF Rejection entry alone.Usually what i do is, suppose if my SL hit based on 15 or 30TF rejection's, then i'll look for 5TF Rejection entry-same day.Because next entry may not happen in 15 or 30Tf ( same day).
To identify pivots in 5TF, i'm using spec sir's RSI -5 OB or OS.It works just fine to me. The more advantage of 5TF pivots is, we can get small SL.I backtested Silver,Copper &Nickel, with past 5 months chart and i'm more satisfied wth that.If the "GAP OPEN" happend also mostly it open very closer to pivot points.It's really wonder! For stocks & NF i use 60Tf's trend only.
KillBull
Posted: 19 Jan 2011 21:45 Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thnaks Spec... whatever little i know of trading i know from your methods, posts and sb comments. Thanks much!!!
Same me toooo, once again Thanks to Spec sir,Shekhar sir & icharts!
Regards,
Jai.
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bagurn
White Belt
Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Posts: 5
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| Post: #266 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Trading rejections |
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Hi Spec,
Many thanks for your help in sharing your strategy for swing trading. We all should appreciate hearfully not just for your selfless attitude to share the strategies but also respond to the queries with a lot of patience. There is really something more for us to learn from you apart from trading.
I had a query on the swing entries as per the strategy. I have attached a recent NF chart and request you to tell me whether I have marked the right swing entries on it.
Regards,
Niranjan
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smartcancerian
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 542
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| Post: #267 Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: |
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I must say..speculator is a really a gentleman who has been answering so many queries with so much patience & kindness..he is making evrybody learn & earn thru this simple stgy.. beside handling his own tradesin equity & commodity markets.....I salute his "NOBLE KARMA" 
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enroute
White Belt
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 64
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| Post: #268 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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thanx 4 sharing ur strategies spec..... 
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smsmss
White Belt
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 123
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| Post: #269 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: hey |
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Great to see some movement again in the thread and people making money by this method.
Cheers Spec
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popoy
White Belt
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 18
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| Post: #270 Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: Re: hey |
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| smsmss wrote: | Great to see some movement again in the thread and people making money by this method.
Cheers Spec |
all i understand but not swing trading...... swing pivot means , how to calculate yaa identify that????
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