iCharts Discussions

[SwingTrader]

NF Levels

R5 4771.22
R4 4705.82
R3 4683.19
R2 4640.42
R1 4624.98
BULL 4600.00
LOC 4567.30
BEAR 4534.60
S1 4509.62
S2 4494.18
S3 4451.41
S4 4428.78
S5 4363.38

[sandew]

ST, Hi
I am posting todays trade log. I must admit i did not catch all these 8 trades I have marked now. Nevertheless I need you to guide wherever there are errors. My log and trade is bases on the following premise , principles
1. Regular trade with sl and tgt - no explaination very clear. once target or sl is hit we will wait till such time new trade comes on the screen.
2. Say, we are initially short and then a recent swing high is hit or a long trade is indicated, we will at the time ignore these long triggers and continue with initial short till such time tgt is met or the sl hits. On sl being hit we will flip and go long as a swing high was pierced. vice-versa for initial long trade.
3. Q. there are occasions when swing high is pierced on high basis and not closing basis of a bar, what is to be taken - in my log i have taken piercing basis
4. Q. there are times when a bar high meets the target but then falls and closes below the nearest level. In my log i have considered it as a close below level for determining subsequent trades.
5. say, we are long, nifty falls , vascillates, and then shoots breaking nearest swing high - as we are long and swing high is broken, here i have added a trade 7 in my log.

I know this last week has not been easy to trade, still it is only these occassions which gives opportuniy to iron the smart nuances of the strategy.

Thanks
Sandew
June 1, 2009

955 (note Below and Up is on closing basis)
1000 Kiss bull level ( Q. Is kiss to be taken as Up / Below or neutral)
1005 Below Bull
1010 Below Bull
1015 Trade1 SHORT, sl 4611, tgt 4568 Close Up Bull
1020 Up Bull ( Q : Is this considered first or second close Up bull)
1025 Below Bull
1030 Below Bull
1035 Below Bull
1040 Below Bull
1045 Trade1 SHORT tgt met, Close Up LOC ( Q : Is this to be considered first close Up loc)
1050 Up Loc
1055 Trade 2 go LONG tgt bull 4600 sl 4552,
1100 Trade 2 LONG tgt met, Close Below Bull
1105 Below Bull
1110 Trade 3 go SHORT as 2 closes below bull, close Up Bull
1115 Below Bull
1120 Below Bull
1125 Below Bull
1130 Up Bull
1135 Up Bull, Trade 3 sl hit - as Swing High of 11.00 also crossed - so on sl hit Flip Trade 4 go SHORT
1140 Up Bull
1145 Up Bull
1150 Below Bull
1155 Below Bull
1200 Below Bull
1205 Below Bull
1210 Below Bull
1215 Below Bull
1220 Below Bull
1225 Below Bull
1230 Below Bull
1235 Below Bull
1240 Below Bull
1245 Below Bull
1250 Up Bull, Trade 4 sl hit, Swing High of 12.20 cut so on Sl hit go TRADE 5 go LONG
1255 Below Bull
1300 Below Bull
1305 Below Bull
1310 Up Bull
1315 Up Bull
1320 Up Bull
1325 Up Bull
1330 Below Bull
1335 Up Bull
1340 Up Bull
1345 Up Bull
1350 Up Bull
1355 Up Bull
1400 Hit R1 also pierces Swing High 13.15 so ADD Trade 6 go LONG, shift sl to 4612 (OR take profit Trade 5 and skip Trade 6)
1405 Up R1
1410 Up R1
1415 Trade 5 and 6 Long tgt met, hit R2
1420 Below R2
1425 Below R2
1430 Though not key level of day, candlestick pattern prompts take TRADE 7 go SHORT
1435 Below R1
1440 Trade 7 tgt met, Below Bull
1445 Below Bull
1450 Below Bull, TRADE 8 go Short
1455 Below Bull
1500 Below Bull
1505 Below Bull
1510 Below Bull
1515 Below Bull
1520 Below Bull
1525 Below Bull
1530 Below Bull, Square up Trade 8 on day close

[san77s]

Dear Sandew,
Your first trade was wrong because the day open with Bull but not cross above the level. So you didn't initiate the short trade at 10.15.
The 1st trade was two close above bull that was 10.25 candle. You have to initiate long at 10.25 candle at 4605.55 with a s/l of 4583. That also hit by the very next candle.
ST sir was busy for the past few days so he didn't post the probable trade. I thought last Wednesday was very tough day because lot of s/l was hit on that day.
ST sir if you get time please look back on 03/06/2009 chart and guide us.

Thanks & Regards,
S.Saravanan

[sandew]

Dear S. Saravanan,

On reflection, i see Trade 1 is Long (not Short) due at 10.25 whose SL got hit. You are correct. I for one look forward to your comments on other trades as well.

Important for me to know besides Regular Trade is :
1, how do we address a situation where nifty oscillates for an hour around a level closing alternatively UP and Below.
2, Also the treatment we give to breaking of recent swing high or swing low which is (a) in direction of our initial trade (b) against our direction of our initial trade.
3, and associated with this is the manner we determine and apply rules of when, how and whether to FLIP our trade when it hits the Stop Loss.

I have picked up all these principles from the various literature and the example commentary posted by ST in his forum. (barring the Trade 7 reason for which i have explained)

My purpose is to learn whether I am in error and for all of us to get a hang of the strategy roghtly and in full - as I believe in school we learnt as much as the teacher taught us as from the questions asked by our fellow students.

Thanks Sandew
PS. In my last post read Trade 6 instead of Trade 7 in para marked 5.

[sandew]

I am posting the revised log incorporating the change of Trade 1.
My queries on the correct applicability of the ST Level strategy posted earlier today and yesterday below remains, beckoning response.

Regards
SanDew

PS. how can I attach the excel file of the log to this post, pls ??

REVISED LOG June 5 NIFTY 1-M
955
1000 Kiss bull level ( Q. How is this to be considered close up/below bull)
1005 Below Bull
1010 Below Bull
1015 Up Bull
1020 Up Bull
1025 Below Bull, Trade1 LONG
1030 Below Bull
1035 Below Bull
1040 Below Bull, Trade1 LONG SL Hit, Trade 1 closed.
1045 Below Bull
1050 Below Bull
1055 Below Bull
1100 Below Bull
1105 Below Bull
1110 Up Bull
1115 Below Bull
1120 Below Bull
1125 Below Bull, Trade 2 SHORT
1130 Up Bull
1135 Up Bull, Swing High of 11.00 also crossed - so on sl hit Flip Trade
1140 Up Bull, Trade 2 SL hit, Flip Trade and go for TRADE 3 LONG
1145 Up Bull
1150 Below Bull
1155 Below Bull
1200 Below Bull
1205 Below Bull
1210 Below Bull, breaks swing low of 11.55 - so on sl hit Flip Trade
1215 Below Bull
1220 Below Bull
1225 Below Bull
1230 Below Bull, Trade 3 SL hit, flip Trade and go TRADE 4 SHORT
1235 Below Bull
1240 Below Bull
1245 Below Bull
1250 Up Bull, Trade 4 SL hit, Swing High of 12.20 also cut so go TRADE 5 LONG
1255 Below Bull
1300 Below Bull
1305 Below Bull
1310 Up Bull
1315 Up Bull
1320 Up Bull
1325 Up Bull
1330 Below Bull
1335 Up Bull
1340 Up Bull
1345 Up Bull
1350 Up Bull
1355 Up Bull
1400 Hit R1 also pierces Swing High 13.15 so ADD Trade 6 go LONG, shift sl to 4612 (OR take profit Trade 5 and skip Trade 6)
1405 Up R1
1410 Up R1
1415 Trade 5 and 6 Long tgt met, hit R2
1420 Below R2
1425 Below R2
1430 Though not key level of day, candlestick pattern prompts take TRADE 7 go SHORT ( this short trade7 is strictly not as per ST level strategy)
1435 Below R1
1440 Below Bull, TRADE 7 tgt met
1445 Below Bull
1450 Below Bull, TRADE 8 go SHORT
1455 Below Bull
1500 Below Bull
1505 Below Bull
1510 Below Bull
1515 Below Bull
1520 Below Bull
1525 Below Bull
1530 Below Bull, Square up Trade 8 on day close

[SwingTrader]

Sandew,

Before I post my clarifications about your revised logs, please read the following very carefully:

If you are going to use my levels the way you are using then you are going to run into quite a few problems. Following the levels according to the book is fine for a starter, but after using the levels for a while you should realise that there is some amount of flexibility necessary. I keep stressing the fact that the levels are more of a supporting tool. The strategies I have posted are to get you started only. If you try to determine the change of trend tick-by-tick or candle by candle and do not give even a little bit of flexibility then there is no chance of longterm success using the levels. Even I do not use the levels that precisely. Technical analysis is not precise science. You need to use some of your own judgement. Throw in few indicators like moving averages, oscillators etc and see what happens when there is a confluence of oversold/overbought conditions in these indicators and at the same time price also is encountering support/resistance at my levels. See what happens after such events. You will get critical clues. Plot few moving average and try and take the trades according to my levels but ONLY in the direction of the trend indicated by the moving averages. This way you will atleast be in the direction of the trend. Of course, this way you will miss out on some excellent counter-trend trades once the trend changes but that you can try later and see how to capture those.

Clarifications:

1000 Kiss bull level ( Q. How is this to be considered close up/below bull)

It is surely not a close above the level, it is a close exactly at the level. The most convenient thing is to ignore this bar so there is no confusion.

1040 Below Bull, Trade1 LONG SL Hit, Trade 1 closed.

SL is around 4583 so it gets hit on the 10:30 bar itself.

The rest of it is almost fine, I don't see any issues. I would again urge you to plot few moving averages and try and trade in the direction of the trend (slope of the moving averages). This will initially reduce the whipsaws (do note that it will also keep you out of few major counter-trend trades). Sideways sections can be very unforgiving to trend based strategies, so it is important to reliably identify trend and stay out if there is no clear trend.

One example moving averages to use are EMA(13) & EMA(34) on a 5-min NF chart. Watch for confluence of EMA(13)/EMA(34) and my levels and look for reversals at those points. Do note that slope of EMA(34) is the key and if EMA(13) is above EMA(34) then all the more better for long trades and vice versa.

I know I have to post charts with examples but I have not had time to finish the charts at all. Will post once ready. But do take care...use the ideas above and experiment.

Will post more soon....

Good Luck!!!

[sandew]

Dear ST,
Thank You for your time for this exhaustive reply.
1. For me it was important to confirm to myself that I have got your strategy principles of Swing High/ Low ; FLIP ; SL; et.al. correct in addition to the regular trade. Your endorsement puts at ease any pridicament I might had. Thank You.
2. I do use confluence of 3-13-34 ema. Interestingly on a prompt in SB, I tried Force Index FI and it has given results better than STS, RSEX.
3. I occasionally refer to CCI (3) in Strong Trending market and hold my trade when there is similar confluence in tf 5,15,30,60 minutes, and keep moving the SL. At first signs of deviation in higher tf I become cautious to book profits. EMA 3-13-34 remains my primary key in trending market.
4. Another indicator I use is ADX / DMI, which serves me well. Confluence in tf 5 and 15 minute charts gives me good 20 points on nifty-1m in rangebound trading markets like last week.
5. I am happy with 20 to 25 points now-a-days even when the target levels are at 35 points and above. ( occasionally I do let my profit run as well).

Regards
Sandew